Eaton m122 H supercharged E36

Discuss Bosch (Porsche, BMW, Volvo, etc) tuning topics here. Request definitions, discuss parameters, etc.

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Greenday694
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Eaton m122 H supercharged E36

Post by Greenday694 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:50 am

Hello have been having some problems and can't seem to figure this out. Car is 93 BMW 325is my original build was M90 Eaton supercharger using fic 6 piggyback. Peaked out at 9 PSI. Had it running really good but decided to work on the M122h. Was able to get that running good. But after months of trying to intercept the crank signal so I can pull timing it turns out that the fic 6 is incompatible with this type of Mag sensor. Now I'm using the ostrich 2.0 and the registered version of tuner Pro RT. With the larger blower I had to go up to 42lb injectors. I'm still using the f i c 6 for fueling. I want to get rid of that completely and use tunerpro instead. Between the two I've been able to get the car running very good. I'm using one of the 413 bins and xdf file for the 506. But that seems to be kind of a mismatch. I wanted to know if anybody has any suggestions on bin files and xdf files that I should be using. I did try to download the one that says M3 USA. But it would not open. Thanks for any help. Keith

Evil
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Post by Evil » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:57 am

Hi,
Whats your DME, is it a 506 or a 413?
If you try to open a 413 bin with a 506 XDF it will not work, tables adresses are not the same.

I've download the bin and XDF for dme506/soft 965 (M3 usa) and it works well...

Greenday694
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Post by Greenday694 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:30 am

Thanks for replying. My DME is the 413. Right now I'm using a 413 bin. And the 506 soft xdf

Evil
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Post by Evil » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:48 am

So you have To use the 413 xdf 😉

Greenday694
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Post by Greenday694 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:17 am

That's what I figured too. Unfortunately after weeks of searching I could not find a red label xdf file that would open. Any ideas where I should try?

Evil
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Post by Evil » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:50 am

you can find it in the download section on the Tunerpro website:
http://tunerpro.net/downloadBinDefs.htm#BMW

Greenday694
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Post by Greenday694 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:28 pm

I did find one and I saw it before as well. But how do I convert that to an xdf file?

Evil
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Post by Evil » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:36 pm

No need To convert anything, you just have To open your bin file and xdf file it with Tunerpro...

Greenday694
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Post by Greenday694 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:50 pm

I must be missing something? The one that says BMW 413 Red Label chip 623 xdf. It shows up as an HTML document. I tried to save it in bin definitions and I tried opening tuner Pro with it. TP opens but still no xdf file. Tried going to file location and loading it and it will not load. FYI that is the bin that I am using. Should I try the one for the silver label? Right now I did remove the f i c 6. Soldered and heat shrink tube all the wiring back together to original. I lower the injector constant enough so that it will run. Super Rich at idle. And a little on the rich side at steady Cruise. Wide open throttle very strong starts to lean out near rev limiter at 7000 RPMs. Tried adjusting the idle map. But it won't accept negative values. I enter in save it come back to open it again and they're all at zero. I'm going to guess that's one of the differences between the xdf files.? Again thanks for your help.

Evil
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Post by Evil » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:22 pm

You must open TP first, and then click on "XDF", "select XDF ", and then choose your file.

Evil
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Post by Evil » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:12 pm

By changing injector constant you will have to modify load scale on every tables that use the load as descriptor.
LOAD on our Motronics DMEs is injection time needed for stoich, so if you modify the injectors constant (which is used for load calculation)without modify scaling you will have a poor definition on load (and fuel correction) since the DME will use less columns in load related tables, i.e. maybe the first 3 or 4 columns will be used.

Are you still using MAF? you should check if he'snt saturated too soon, if so you have the possibility to use a bigger one but you need to know his transfer map (voltage vs airflow), easy to find if you choose another one from BMW.

On fueling tables you can't use negtive values: they are mostly corrections. As I said the DME calculates the injection time for stoich and with the fuel tables you gives the corrections to reach the AFR you need.
128 = no correction, higher value = enrich, lower value = enlean.

Greenday694
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Post by Greenday694 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:27 pm

I just tried a bunch of different times to load that file. The file is in HTML format and it will not load as in xdf file.
I'm still running the stock Mas for now. I have the larger 3.5 one for a 540. The stock one was maxing out with the f i c 6 at about 4000 RPMs. I rescaled and clamped the upper limit. Easy to do with the fic. The Mas map in tunerpro looks very similar. But right now my main problem is at idle and low load. Ideally I would have started tuning this way while it was stock. And made the changes has I added the parts. So I don't want to put the larger Mas on until I get the idle straightened out.

Evil
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Post by Evil » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:40 pm

Give me your mail (in PM if you want) and I'll sent you the 413 red label xdf.
You can't adjust idle fuel map (and no any other) without the good XDF. :wink:
You will also need to tune the injector latency (bigger injevtors are often slower to open than smaller ones)

Greenday694
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Post by Greenday694 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:05 pm

Thank you very much. That did the trick. Still have some fine-tuning to do but at least it's idling nice and smooth and is drivable again. :D hopefully I'll be able to get it back on the dyno again this week. Two weeks ago it hit 303 HP and 291 torque. On a deadstock engine with 253000 miles on it. 11 PSIG at 2500 RPMs peeking out at 13. I'm severely under driving the blower. But you got to love these M50 B-25 Tu engines. It doesn't use a drop of oil and no blow by.

Hairyscreech
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Post by Hairyscreech » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:27 am

You need to right click and "save as" on the XDF files, then save them as .XDF
For the 506 XDF the link is broken, I made a quick post about it elsewhere with a link that you can right click and save as on to get the xdf.

Use the 506 BIN with the 506 XDF as has been suggested, the 413 bin is about 2 bytes out to the 506 XDF but the tables are all the same.
You could also just use a 506 bin with the map values from your 413 bin copy/pasted back in.

I made a calcualtor in excel to work out the axis from a given input but I think I have lost it when I destroyed a memory stick by accident the other week.
The math is fine and it would rescale you axis based on the given inputs without you having to work out the hex and understand how motroninc counts.
If you are stuck I can probably remake it.

Greenday694
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Post by Greenday694 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:19 am

Thanks for your help. I did try the 416 bin and xdf. but it didn't have the maps that I needed to reschedule my injectors. So I switched over to the 506 soft and the bin that goes with it. It's running a lot better. I can't seem to get the idol to come down from 1100. And I'm getting a check engine light. 1282. Some kind of conflict in the data. I read on the form that I have to save the bin first before I upload so the check sums are correct. I know I didn't do that initially. I tried to go back and do it that way but still same thing. Quick question. What are banks 1 through 8.? I was saving on one. At some point a message popped up when I went to save again and it's suggested Bank 8. I have no clue what that means.
in Failure there can be lessons . in perseverance there can be results.

Greenday694
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Post by Greenday694 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:05 pm

Hello again. I definitely mess something up with the 506 files. I saved and upload it and the car will not start. I'm completely new to this type of tuning. So I went back to the 413 setup and at least the car runs. It doesn't run right but it runs. I think I have the whole upload download , checksum screwed up. Is there a way I can erase everything from the ostrich so I can start over?
in Failure there can be lessons . in perseverance there can be results.

Greenday694
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Post by Greenday694 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:13 pm

Okay so my stubbornness won out. I went back to the 506 rescaled and redid all the maps for the larger injectors. But it seems like some of it doesn't do anything. No matter how high or low I set the idle it still hovers around 1,000. And I have a code 1211. Self test failed. But if I unplug a sensor while it's running it will give me a code for that as well. I'm using the Red Label 413. Would the silver label 413 work better?
in Failure there can be lessons . in perseverance there can be results.

Evil
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Post by Evil » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:34 pm

Are you sure a 506 bin can work in a 413?

Greenday694
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Post by Greenday694 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:11 am

When it comes to this type of tuning I'm not really sure of anything. All I know is my car does run with a 506 bin in my 413 DME. But since it doesn't run right maybe it doesn't work?
in Failure there can be lessons . in perseverance there can be results.

Evil
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Post by Evil » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:10 am

For me it would make more sense to use the 413 bin, but I can not surely tell if a 506 bin is good or not. Maybe a difference in any sensor, and surely difference in the MAF transfer table (anyway you should tune this table when runnig a 540i MAF, I think you could easily find the values it in a 540i bin) .
Which table did you need in the 413 that you didn't found?
Is your speed sensor OK? without speed signal these DME doesn't work good...

Evil
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Post by Evil » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:29 am

Image
free image hosting

MAF transfer table from a DME 404, which I think is the good for your MAF.

Max value is higher than the 413 one. (The table is in 16*16 to be fully view in the screenshot, but it is in reality a 256*1 in 16bit LoHi

Greenday694
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Post by Greenday694 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:47 am

Lol... I went back to the 413 again. Still getting code 1211. I'm going to reset and see if it comes back. I'm not sure which bin is for my car. A lot of stuff was swapped around by the previous owner. I'm using the red label one from tunerpro. The vehicle speed signal is good. After it hit some kind of default 5150 rev limit on the dyno a couple weeks ago .I checked that first with oscilloscope. Especially since in the two years I've owned the car I've had plenty of electrical problems. Loose grounds. Loose and corroded connectors. All the fun stuff involved in owning an older BMW. Now if I can get it out of limp mode I should be okay.
in Failure there can be lessons . in perseverance there can be results.

Evil
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Post by Evil » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:51 pm

yes you should reset default codes and retry .
If your DME is a 413 red label, so the 413 red label should work.
If not it will not be better with a bin from another type of DME.

Greenday694
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Post by Greenday694 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:56 pm

That did it.. now the real fun begins trying to tune for 42 lb injectors. And boost from idle to rev limit.
in Failure there can be lessons . in perseverance there can be results.

Greenday694
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Post by Greenday694 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:12 pm

That will definitely come in handy when I upgrade to a larger Mas. Can anybody give me an example as to what the fuel Maps should look like when rescaling for much larger injectors? Especially part throttle Vanos on and Vanos off? If my math is correct these injectors are 60% larger. I lowered the constant to. 40 but that was not enough for idling. I had to reduce it to 33. My biggest problem is transitioning from idle. Having two separate maps for part throttle is getting real confusing. I could be wrong but it seems as though Vanos off is the initial acceleration. Vanos on is more of a steady state.?
in Failure there can be lessons . in perseverance there can be results.

Evil
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Post by Evil » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:19 pm

Fuel tables are only "correction tables". The DME calculates the LOAD (which in a Motronic is injection time), with MAF signal, injector constant and engine speed. (except at WOT but not the problem for the moment). This load is calculated to reach stoich AFR. Fuel tables are then used when you want a different AFR than stoich.

For the injector constant: if your injectors are 1.6x biggers, you need to divide your constant by this value. So you have to divide your original constant by 1,6.
At the same time your LOAD scale have to be divided by the same amount on every table who are LOAD related (like ignition tables, fuel tables....), because load calculation is proportional to injector constant. In reality your load scale will maybe need to be wider than a N/A motor because of the boost.

In addition you need to rescale your injection latency table (also call dead time), because big injectors are less fast to open, so need a bigger amount of opening time in addition to the calculated load to reach correct fueling.

And then, you absolutely need to tune your MAF transfer table for your bigger MAF. Without it, your DME will see a different airflow than it is and then calculate an incorrect load.

Nothing will work correctly without it.

Vanos ON/OFF fuel tables are only used to reach the desired AFR if you want it different than stoich.

Hairyscreech
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Post by Hairyscreech » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:38 am

Just for clarity here, the 413 and 506 ECUs are identical hardware. They are both 6 cylinder versions of M3.3.1.
The 413 ECU was for the M50B25 and the 506 for the US S50B32. Like the E30 172 and 173 ECUs they are only chipped differently so either ECU can be used on either car with either BIN.
They come in red and silver label versions, the red was non-EWS and the silver had EWS, again this is only a change in the software so for us it is not a problem.
The software differences are very small, 99% of the 506 maps are in the 413 just shifted 2 bytes later in the BIN, the maps are tuned for a larger bore/stroke and longer duration cams and that is about it.

To explain the vanos maps thing - The ECU switches between those maps depending on if the Vanos is activated or not, it is not a simple rev related activation, the load the ECU calculated dictates if the vanos is activated so the RPM point can vary.
It should be off (retarded) at idle, on around 1000rpm (advanced) and retards again at higher loads which is normally around 3800-4500RPM depending on throttle position.

If you have a vanos fault of any kind then it will work from an average of the two maps.

This IS going to complicate your tuning as you pretty much have to map the ECU twice, once for advanced and once for retarded, or disable the vanos and just tune the retarded map (essentially unplug it and give the ECU 12v on the vanos pin making sure to set the vanos tables in the ECU so that it never tries to advance).
It is not the end of the world but it will limit your ability to road tune the ECU.
I guess you could always set the Vanos tables in the ECU to always on or always off and then tune each set of tables that way.
The Vanos max and min load for activation tables have been explained on here if you do a bit of searching the values in the tables are the load value the ECU needs to hit before it activates/deactivates the vanos solenoid, setting them all high will see it stay one way and all low will make it stay the other way.

You will need to run in open loop 90% of the time otherwise the ECU is going to try to return to 14.7:1 AFR, I assume you know how to disable the lambda? Make sure to set the trigger points for open loop fuelling to the lowest values as well, these tables tell tell the ECU to go open loop above certain load values, setting them low will make sure the ECU stays in open loop while you tune.
You might be able to switch the closed loop back on for low loads later on but make sure you have the trigger points in the tables set low enough that the ECU does not try to go for 14.7:1 under boost in the mid range.

Evil
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Post by Evil » Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:15 am

Interesting To know that both are compatible.

For tuning with Vanos I think that like Hairyscreech said it would be a good idea To play with max/min load To force Vanos in one position To tune each table.

Greenday694
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Post by Greenday694 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:55 pm

Thanks both of you... After trying a few things I did figure out that the vanos was load related. It's running a lot better. Still having some problems pulling enough fuel at idle and low load in open loop. Lowering the fuel pressure a little did help. WOT + 27.5psia = 12.3 Afr. So that's good. PT steady cruise = 14.7 afr. I have to work more on the transition. Especially slight throttle from idle. And dropping down to idle from higher rpms. I have lowered the acceleration enrichment some. That has helped. I'm taking small steps so I can see the overall affect. I don't just want to get it running right I want to understand how I made it run right.
Right now I believe it's close enough so that I can put the larger Mas on and start working on that. Once I figure out how to squeeze it in there. I was also thinking about doing away with the Mas and replace it with a map. I've done this many times with older Ford's and GM's.
One of the main reasons why I decided to try this type of tuning over the piggyback fic 6 I was using was to pull timing under boost. I have not touched the timing yet. On the ignition timing Maps are they reference numbers or actual degrees of timing?
in Failure there can be lessons . in perseverance there can be results.

Evil
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Post by Evil » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:17 pm

On ignition tables, values are in degrees BTDC.

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Post by Hairyscreech » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:16 pm

So you know, there is a formula for the timing, it is something like the raw hex value, minus 60, divided by 2(might be 4?) working from memory at work so best to double check that. Either way it is in the XDF files, conversions tab I think.
Both the 413 and 506 def files have the correct timing formula already programmed in though so you only need look at that if you want a deeper understanding.

If there are any tables that you don't have in the 413 XDF you are using but appear in the 506 XDF you will be able to offset the Hex address by 2 and you should then have the same table in the 413.

How much power are you going for? The stock MAF will work up to about 300hp, maybe a touch more.

Your idle and off idle transition may be the injector response time vs voltage map, if the response time of the injectors is not correctly set up in that table then it is hard to get the small pulse widths right.

Evil
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Post by Evil » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:18 am

Conversion To a MAP sensor instead of a MAF can be a good idea but I'm not sure it could be possible To just "electrically" do It.
Some.motronic use a MAP sensor, like on some Peugeot like old 306 S16, but also use a VE table.
It could be possible To use a MAP instead of the TPS, and then use the "maf limp mode table " as a VE table, like alpha/n configuration with maf deleted. You will have to entend the size of this table, I exolained it in another thread.
Anyway, you'd better have it working well with a MAF and see if you really need To.use a MAP sensor, many supercharged applications are working well with a MAF, as long as he is correctly sized.

Greenday694
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Post by Greenday694 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:57 pm

I've been taking in all the great information and trying to make it work. Still having problems down near idle. I did get the voltage set up as close to perfect as possible. No accessories on and every accessory I can find to turn on bringing the voltage Down The afr's Hold Steady. It idles good. But as soon as I touch the throttle slightly to try to bring it up to say 1500, it starts to climb and then goes Super Rich AFR= 10 and 9. If I hold it there it will flood out and stall. If I step on it a little bit harder it will rev up. Study cruise down the road 50 miles per hour afr's hover around 14-7. If I try a slight throttle controlled deceleration the afr's will drop to 9.5 - 10. Once again super rich. I thought maybe the throttle position sensor was messed up so I replaced it with one from my other car that I know worked fine. That did not change anything. I tried subtracting fuel from part-throttle Vanos on and Vanos off low load and low RPM blocks n from the idle fuel map slightly above idle. This still did not change anything. One thing that keeps coming to mind is two tuners that I worked with in the past told me that these Bosch units cannot accurately pull enough fuel to run this large of injectors. That I would have driveability issues in a lower RPM range. These are 42lb injectors.
I can rev it up to a little over 3000 RPMs and hold it there and it runs fine. But if I try to take off easy it will load up and stall. Sometimes I have to hold the pedal to the floor while cranking to get it started again. I was also considering trying the 506 then and definition file again sense it has more options.???
in Failure there can be lessons . in perseverance there can be results.

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Post by olafu » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:37 am

Are you using charge cooler with your blower? And where your MAF locates? Bypass or blow out valves?

Your symptoms looks like there is BOV installed, and blower blows out part of the metered air . -> less air goes through than MAF tells to ECU -> VERY rich.

If you have scanner, look what's the realtime values in ECU. What happens to injection time or load value, when that problem occurs. It will help you a big step to forward.

What all maps/things you have been modified from your BIN?

Greenday694
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Post by Greenday694 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:58 am

I am using an air-to-air intercooler. No blow off valve. There is a bypass valve built into the supercharger that reroutes boost pressure from the bottom back into the inlet of the supercharger. But that doesn't open until it hits 13 PSIG. Right or wrong after reading more on the Forum I decided to try to set the injector constant at .40 then I reset all the maps back to original and multiplied them by .39. That seems to work better. The Mas is mounted on the inlet of the throttle body. The throttle body is mounted to the intake of the supercharger. The air goes from the supercharger intercooler and piping and then to the intake manifold. It's a draw through set up to which the supercharger was intended for.
in Failure there can be lessons . in perseverance there can be results.

Greenday694
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Post by Greenday694 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:46 am

I did manage to get it running better. But I must be missing something. I think some of it has to do with the injector length and voltage. I'm not sure how or if I should change it for the larger injectors. Should I lower all the values by the offset size of 60% larger.? Or only certain ones to a certain degree? I'm not sure what the formula is? Going from a stock 17 lb injectors to 42 complicates things.. And I did notice at the 506 definition has a few other things related to the injectors.
You guys have been extremely helpful. My car would not be running right now without it. But I am completely new to this type of software. It was pointed out earlier that I could use some of the definitions from the 506 and all I have to do is shift the hex over two. I have no clue what the hex is or what it does? I'm used to working with programs that are already spelled out. Piggybacks and stand-alones. Where I am only tuning the engine not the software for the engine. I'm pretty much old school. So when you start talking about addresses and changing hex positions I get really lost. All the information you given has definitely helped a lot. If you can give some examples as to what direction some of these Maps need to go for my setup that would really help. Like with the voltage offset table for the injectors. Because I'm using larger slower injectors what I want to decrease at higher voltage from the base setting or increase and the lower voltage?
Thax.. Keith
in Failure there can be lessons . in perseverance there can be results.

Greenday694
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Post by Greenday694 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:18 am

Back again. I figured some of it out after reading a lot more post. I did install a larger Mas and multiplied the scale by 1.4. That seems to work good. Scale is from 0 to 1222 kg/h. I'm a little hesitant about changing anything else on it. But if I have to I will. Right now I have all the fuel tables set so that it runs good from idle all the way up but only with the O2 turned off. If I turn the O2 on the first thing that happens at idle is it starts to go extremely lean. I noticed with the 506 that if I lower the numbers in any of the fuel Maps that I noticed with the 506 that if I lower the numbers in any of the fuel maps that the numbers increase in the corresponding AFR map. Do I have to adjust the constant, injector length and Mas until I can get the fuel Maps back to the original settings? So that when the O2 is on that it doesn't try to undo the changes that I'm trying to make? I would really like to be able to use the O2 feedback off boost. It helps to smooth out the slight rich or lean conditions in everyday normal driving. And even with the mods my car still gets about 24 miles to the gallon on the highway. Thanks in advance for any assistance. Keith
in Failure there can be lessons . in perseverance there can be results.

Greenday694
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Post by Greenday694 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:00 pm

I have it working pretty good right now. Drivability is very smooth almost as if my car was dead stock. Wide open throttle Vanos on and off is working very well. Still having problems with the O2 feedback trimming fuel at part throttle.Hairyscreech had mentioned earlier that I would most likely have to run in open loop most of the time. I agree that anything above steady Cruise will need to be open loop. How do I do that? I tried playing with the axis but I really don't understand the concept. There's two rows of RPMs. I might be way off but I think the left row is the actual engine RPMs and the right Rowe is the RPM's related to the maps. Would shifting them higher put them in range for open loop? I also tried changing the throttle position transfer map so that it was at 255 from about quarter throttle on up. Not really sure what I'm doing but I am experimenting with what I have. I would really like to get this sorted out so I can get it back on the dyno and finish my run. If all looks good I would be more than happy to share this tune with everyone. Thanks Keith
in Failure there can be lessons . in perseverance there can be results.

Hairyscreech
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Post by Hairyscreech » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:04 am

Take a look at the updated excel file I just put onto the other thread, it has 4 tables indicated for the 413 ECU.

What ever load value you put into those tables is the point the ECU begins the open loop for that lambda sensor.

There are 2 tables of 6*1 and 2 tables of 4*1, I think they are front bank pre cat, back bank pre cat, front post cat and back post cat. Cannot be sure yet but I do know setting them all to 00 will make the ECU go direct to open loop, same as the 506 BIN.

Edit - Also not sure what you are reffering to in your post above with the 2 rows of RPMs and altering the TPS map but you should not need to do either of those things.

Greenday694
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Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:35 am
Location: New jersey

Post by Greenday694 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:24 pm

Thanks for your help. I know it's a lot of work I've been reading a lot about how you create definition files. I'm starting to get a basic understanding of hex. But I'm still a long way from being able to write my own. The xdf you wrote for the knock sensors is very clear and simple. Perfect for somebody like me. I still don't have a clue on how to integrate that into my 413 xdf. But since I'm not having any problems with my knock sensors I will keep it to the side for now. Unfortunately I don't have the slightest clue what that last one is or what it even looks like. So I still have no clue how to make my car go in open loop sooner. I know how to use the bin and definition file to tune the engine. But I still don't know enough to create definitions or combine different pieces together to make a whole definition file.???
in Failure there can be lessons . in perseverance there can be results.

Hairyscreech
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:19 am

Post by Hairyscreech » Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:55 pm

Unfortunately I cannot take credit for that bit, it was olafu.

It's well worth getting a handle on the hex and how the system thinks, it makes it a lot easy to play with the system.

That excel file probably has everything you could need to understand the current state of the art as I have been collecting the info on it for literally years now.

Try the motronic.ws web site for starters on understanding how the tables are constructed and how motronic ECUs think as the basics has carried down throughout the range up to the late 2000s. I think motronic.ws now needs the wayback machine web archive to view it but all the detail you need is there.

If I get some time this week I will try to make a master XDF for the 413 tune with all of the updated tables added to it, mostly as that seems to be the one everyone is working with and if we are all plugging away at the same one we will get a lot further a lot faster.

You pretty much need to add the 4 tables located at E350 (E364 6*1), E36A (E372 6*1), E378 (E37E 4*1) and E382 (E388 4*1) into and XDF and set the values to 0x00 to turn the open loop off (beginning of the data address is in brackets, that's the address for the XDF, the first one is the start of the map/axis)

Greenday694
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:35 am
Location: New jersey

Post by Greenday694 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:59 pm

That would be great. Right now I only have a very basic understanding of how these systems work. I did try to add it myself and somehow screwed everything up. I decided to save my mess up. And hopefully later on compare it to what your finished product is and hopefully be able to pick out what I did wrong. This is the final piece to my tuning puzzle. Right now for normal everyday driving I can leave the O2 on. But when I go to do some spirited driving I have to turn it off. Once I'm in the wot Maps it's fine. But the part throttle still tries to pull fuel where I don't want it to and then it reaches a certain point near wot that it doesn't. I'm going to need to go open loop from about 20% throttle on up.
in Failure there can be lessons . in perseverance there can be results.

Hairyscreech
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:19 am

Post by Hairyscreech » Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:27 am

I finally uploaded the new 413 XDF and my axis calculator.

Take a look at the updates thread and you will find both of them with the notes that you need to turn your lambda off and fix your load axis.

8)

Greenday694
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:35 am
Location: New jersey

Post by Greenday694 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:00 pm

Hello again it's been a little while. Still trying to sort out my ECU. Quick update. Beginning of this year my engine finally gave. 258000 original miles 14 lb of boost. A little blow by at first, then a lot, then a ton of blue smoke out the tailpipe.

I built a 3 liter M50 Stroker motor. Full ARP Hardware, all new timing components ACL Tri metal bearings, 140 head gasket.

So I am back to tuning again. First thing I upgraded was the Mas. The 89 mm unit hit 4.6 volts before 4,000 RPMs. So I installed a slot Style PMAS extended range sensor. Being able to change the max and especially minimal voltage limits for the Mas really helped. Once again I have it running pretty well. But not like it should.

I have read a lot and I still can't seem to grasp hex. Some kind of mental block. I believe the problem I'm running into had something to do with the load axis. But every time I open them in tuner Pro I just don't understand it. I see two rows of RPM values. One that is fixed the other one that can be changed. My part throttle and wide open throttle Vanos on has quite a few hiccups. Some of which appears to be fuel-related others I suspect is timing.
Accelerating from very low RPMs is very strong. As the RPMs come up it doesn't pull harder like it should. The power seems to slowly drop off. Even though boost is about 1.5 bars and my AFR are in the low 12. There's no pre detonation or missing. It just feels like I started putting my foot on the brake a little bit. I'm just really lost and don't know what to do.
Can somebody please help me? Explain it to me in very simple terms.
Thanks, Keith
in Failure there can be lessons . in perseverance there can be results.

Greenday694
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:35 am
Location: New jersey

Post by Greenday694 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:50 pm

And I recently bought a Schwaben scanner.
The live data is very helpful. The only question I have is, timing intervention. I noticed that even at idle it switches back and forth between active and non-active. Does that mean that a knock sensors are picking up something even at idle? I was hoping to use the scanner to advance or retard timing based on whether or not the ECU is picking up pre detonation. I was hoping it would display the knock count.
Thanks, Keith
in Failure there can be lessons . in perseverance there can be results.

Hairyscreech
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:19 am

Post by Hairyscreech » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:41 am

Sounds like it could be. Set your knock activation load to "FE" and see if that helps, that should make it only activate at very high load (a load value of 12+).

olafu
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:35 pm
Location: Finland

Post by olafu » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:12 am

Knock control is not active, if load is not higher than specified threshold.
Can you check that with other scanner? Bad support for old ECU's are very common problem in today's scan tools. It's not impossible for the scanner to read data from wrong address...

Example: Some scanners will read MAF value from wrong address or LSB an MSB are crossed. -> MAF measuring value seems to rotating around when airflow increases or decreases... :?

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