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179 DME 1267356460 soft xdf

 
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oleg535i



Joined: 22 Aug 2014
Posts: 10
Location: Moldova

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:09 am    Post subject: 179 DME 1267356460 soft xdf Reply with quote

Hello,

I have an e28 runing now Motronic 1.3 with 179 DME and1267356460 software.

Got the xdf for 1267356659, but it's not working with 460 soft

Dos anybody have the xdf for 460? 179 DME?

Please share with me.

it will help me to make some small adjustments to my setup:
179 DME Motronic 1.3 running with 10:1 CR M30b34 which I'll share after it will work proper.
Now it run well, RPM limit ~6700, acceleration is smooth through all the RPM range, but have some small detonations on hot weather.
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oleg535i



Joined: 22 Aug 2014
Posts: 10
Location: Moldova

PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made it myself based on another 179 xdf

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14584371/179%20DME%20and1267356460.xdf

Didn't find only Fuel High Load Map 2


Last edited by oleg535i on Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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oleg535i



Joined: 22 Aug 2014
Posts: 10
Location: Moldova

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still not everything is ok in my xdf.

http://screencast.com/t/3J8ocr6aEIs3

I found 3 idle ignition maps.

they are used depends on coolant temperature? or idle speed?
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biela



Joined: 22 Jul 2014
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Fuel HIGH load map1 is 5033.
Another 6x14 Fuel HIGH load map could be 4E47.

I think Fuel LOW load map1 is 4DCD 7x14 map.

Can you upload 179_460 ori file?
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sgrouwstra



Joined: 07 Dec 2014
Posts: 8
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

biela
I have a original 179_460 bin file for you. I that is what you mean?

oleg535i
How do you find maps? With WinOLS? And how do you relate them to igniton idle or anything else?

My startpoint is also 460 software, Original from my car, i think this software is from late M30B35 engines (e34 535i 1991). I hope i can learn somthing and contribute.

Finally i'am trying to modify my miller MAF sensor with G3 chip. It is based on 1267355796 software. Test run shows it runs to lean.
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biela



Joined: 22 Jul 2014
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the 179_460 bin file.

Thanks
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sgrouwstra



Joined: 07 Dec 2014
Posts: 8
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ftp://mail.sigris.nl/pub/bmw/bins/179_1267356460.zip

Any progress on the 460 xdf ?

Doe you have addresses you are certain of? Or descriptors?
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biela



Joined: 22 Jul 2014
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, i have not tested, but the fuel maps i am speaking about have similar shapes to others.
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sgrouwstra



Joined: 07 Dec 2014
Posts: 8
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think i found the master map table at 0x46A0 for the 460 software. It starts with a couple of Temp maps (38 and 04).

Have odered Ostrich 2.0. to check if the cpu program hits the found maps so they could be usefull.
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sgrouwstra



Joined: 07 Dec 2014
Posts: 8
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did a remap of the BMW_DME_179.xdf from the TunerPro download section to software 1267356460.
I think the BMW_DME_179.xdf from TunerPro is based on software 1267356334.

So i simply searched for the maps, and regonized the values. I looks like they are the same in both software versions, but are all placed on different addresses. probably some of the program is different, but not the values within the maps.

I need to test, i have ostrich2.0 now. Maby i'am wrong, maby the 1267356460 version uses different map in the program code than the 1267356334 version. I have to find out.

ftp://mail.sigris.nl/pub/bmw/xdf/BMW_DME_179_460.zip
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sgrouwstra



Joined: 07 Dec 2014
Posts: 8
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found many more maps. Just have put them in the xdf. Now need to find out which one is used by tracing them. (i hope it is that simple).

ftp://mail.sigris.nl/pub/bmw/xdf/BMW_DME_179_460_v2.zip
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DmcL



Joined: 08 Dec 2010
Posts: 73
Location: Northern Ireland

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you can use any 6 cylinder motronic 1.3 XDF and bin file on any 6 cylinder motronic 1.3 ECU.

the way i do it rather than reinventing the wheel and making an XDF for the m20b20 or m30b30 or m30b35 is just to use my existing and very well figured out m20b25 173 XDF with a compatible 173 bin file. i then just use winOLS to locate the main relevant maps such as cranking fuel/ignition, part and full throttle fuel/ignition and whatever else is more than slightly different from the b25 relating to ignition and fuelling and then i just input values similar to those into the 173 bin or copy the values directly if the load and rpm axis points match up with the 179 or whatever im copying, if they dont match i work it out based on the next matching cell or the next one that is within a few hundred RPM of matching, etc. or you could simply copy over the axis data and use the same RPM and load points as the 179 uses but in a 173 bin file.

it beats making a new XDF when i have one that i spent forever on. would take me days if not weeks to locate the same maps in a different 1.3 bin and then make up all the tables and label them, etc in tunerpro. far quicker and easier to just take what i want and put it into a 173 bin and run that.

if i remember what i named it correctly this was my improvement on the older hakentt/revlimit 173 XDF. i have made more improvements and figured out more things in the years since 2011 so that XDF is not quite as good as the latest version. latest version has correct axis conversion for ignition dwell rather than the raw axis values among other things.

http://tunerpro.net/download/bindefs/BMW/BMW_M20B25%20ecu173_sw705.xdf

last but not least, on the 173 XDF and the 705 software version 173 bin file i know and have labelled which maps the ECU use out of all of the fuel and ignition maps but i have also included the unused ones for fun and giggles and because i know how to switch which maps the ECU will read by altering what i call the index of map addresses which is sort of a lookup table that the ECU uses i believe. have done that before and it worked fine, also created combined low and high part throttle maps and changed the same areas in the lookup table so that low and high part throttle looks at the same larger map and it worked perfectly.. bit of rewriting in a hex editor needed for something like that though.

PM me if you want the latest version of the 173 XDF, i can email it to you and help or tell you what you need to copy over from a 179 bin file, etc. i know motronic 1.3 very, very well...
_________________
EthosMotorsports
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sgrouwstra



Joined: 07 Dec 2014
Posts: 8
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for all the information. this brings me further. i do this for hobby, and this al started with buying a miller maf g3 for my rebuild enigine. I was not satisfied with the constant high idle. I bought Ostrich and tunerpro and tried to work from there with my 179 ecu and 460 software. Then the fun started.
Like you say, it takes days to find maps, and even more days to find out what they do and when. I have modified the AFM transfer maps, and the car is running normal again, but i'am way before having a good tune.

I did not know the 173 705 sotware was running on my DME, but i wil try that. Before i change a lot in the maps, i want to understand what i see and let you know. Beside letting my engine run well, i now am curious about the working of the DME.

I do not know for sure, but i think the miller MAF is not perfect, becaus when running at idle, it gives 1,5 volt. So this i'am half way the first AFM scale map. Have to figure that out, or maby change the resistor R620 in the DME.

I also curious about how you can manipulate the program code to combine maps to one large.

When i tried the 705 soft, i wil let you know.

thx.
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oleg535i



Joined: 22 Aug 2014
Posts: 10
Location: Moldova

PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys,

sorry for being away for long time.

How I did the xdf for 460 soft 179 DME:

I found (Raul the Aryan) the xdf for 659 soft (if I can remember right) 179 DME, and using TunerPro, I made the new xdf.

Trying to explain in details:

1.In 460 soft I select a map (let's say Idle fuel)
2.Covert the map in Hex
3. check map Hex address, it's 4CEE

http://screencast.com/t/yK75CWVP

4. Click on Hex Editor button from top menu
5. I'm looking now for 4CEE location
As you can see I found it, I can see 8A 8D... there
http://screencast.com/t/JO2pyWsJ6


Now starts the intuitive part Smile

6. Now I'm looking at the right side of 659, what I can see in same rows and few steps up and down near the Hex Address I was looking.
http://screencast.com/t/YX7rWqQGxA

7. opening the 460 BIN in Hex format (in another software, just to have both opened in 2 weendows same time)
I was looking at the right side, to find something similar to what I sow in 659 in the right side of hex.
So similar symbols I shown in my last screenshot.

8. I'm looking where it starts with 8A 8D...
9 Point where 8A is, and that's the xdf of Idle Fuel map address.
10. Back in TunerPro,
11. Right click on Idle Fuel maps, Edit parameters in xdf
http://screencast.com/t/Jpz4Juyo
I just change it in Address in hdf

______________________________

After that just saved the new xdf.

Not 100% sure if all is correct, I guess Idle fuel map isn't, because I'm using a wideband O2 now, in my Idle fuel maps, it is 13.5, but I see in reality ~14.7

___

Hope soon will have more time to play with my BIN, to figure out if all is ok, or what's wrong.

Here it is
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14584371/179%20DME%20and1267356460.xdf
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sgrouwstra



Joined: 07 Dec 2014
Posts: 8
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there,

Nice to hear someone is busy with the 460 sw. Very Happy
I did also spend hours and hours on the 460 sw. I tried the 173 705 soft, like dmcl said, but i can not get it working correctly. The car runs, i can drive, but not smooth. So i''am trying, but i also spend time on the 460 sw.

I tried nearly the same approach as you oleg535i Very Happy , and work my way up to an xdf. As a reference guide i used the xdf made by dmcl. With the ostirch i checked if maps are used or not.

I made a conclusion the 460sw is really different. Maby for different driving experience.

The 4CEE you talk about in your example, is not a idle fuel map. I is a WOT map, i guess Fuel (verified with ostrich). Imo, it is not usefull to use a 1x16 rpm map for idel fuel, waste of bytes i guess.

I think the Idle Fuel map is at 4CD4 (4x2 Rpm(3b) x Load(40)), althoug the rpm axis make sens to me it is for Idle.
Also i think: 5DAA, is a CTS/RPM based closed loop idle speed map. (not certain)

http://www.screencast.com/t/BZGCJaym (never mind the values, its for MAF, not AFM)

My project is to get a Miller MAF working correctly. And recently i had an revelation moment. I made tables in TP for some axis fields for a map (Idle speed open loop A/C Off (5E0E) and CTS Temp. Enrichment (4C9C)). I saw these axis bytes where used by the dme. So i modified these axi values, and i saw the dme uses the an the use of the map bahaved different. Smile
For some this is Obvious, for me its new Cool
So i changed some axis data, and now these maps are used properly by the dme. For example, i saw the Idle map never gets used for some reason on the axis +4c, +22c, +50c. I only traces on +85c

http://www.screencast.com/t/2tkBqZ6Fk

Anyway, i made some progress on an 460 xdf, i share it, but ist far from complete. Everything below the 2 lines ------------- is not figured out.
Everything inside categories is figured out for 50%, mostly axis data is missing.
ftp://mail.sigris.nl/pub/bmw/xdf/BMW_DME_179_460.zip

Maby someone could tell me somthing about how to get the right factor/offset for the Load and IAT on the axis values.

oleg535i:
What kind of wideband are you using? I need one and i thing a AEM Uego is a nice one.

Does soneone know a good ASD/OBD interface for measuring realtime values with motronic 1.3?
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oleg535i



Joined: 22 Aug 2014
Posts: 10
Location: Moldova

PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm totally agree with you, I didn't found the idle map, cos I can't see on my innovate wideband any changes.

But partial trottle maps, think they are right, because I have a chip done by Conny/Coneus if you know him, and it was pinging, after I did some changes to partial maps, it's much better now.
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oleg535i



Joined: 22 Aug 2014
Posts: 10
Location: Moldova

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4CD4 give some weird numbers, so probably it's not the Idle

http://screencast.com/t/augs1ptByQ
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oleg535i



Joined: 22 Aug 2014
Posts: 10
Location: Moldova

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm using Innovate MTX-L

About "OBD interface for measuring realtime values with motronic 1.3"

I don't know, a friend of mine is struggling to make one for his e30 Motronic 1.3, hope he will make it asap.
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biela



Joined: 22 Jul 2014
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

May be 4B71 2x4 is another fuel idle map?
The numbers in fuel maps are modifiers, not AFR targets.
Factor for load is 0.05. You get ms.
And may be IAT uses the same factor than CTS.
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sgrouwstra



Joined: 07 Dec 2014
Posts: 8
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:26 am    Post subject: rev limit Reply with quote

Back again, had some time during holidays. Went back on the 179 sw 460. My goal is to understand some things and to improve the 460 XDF.

about the rev limiter. i tried to understand this one.

Some XDF's have a 1 byte limiter and the next 1 byte is a buffer.
i.e. 97 03
Lower limiter lowers the max rev limit. But i think the rev limiter works different, i came across a guy who figured out rev limiter on a motronic 1.7.

I found many (Cool rev limiter maps, i only found one being used at 0x4322 in the 460 sw. https://www.screencast.com/t/4UNIpPebE
(Mostly when test tracing i take a larger 4x3 parameter map to test)
Every rev limiter map seems to start with hex 64 28

I even verified this decompiled, it looks 0x4322 is being used.
https://www.screencast.com/t/S66fYDoe
CJNE means compare and jump if nt equal.

How it works:
The rev limiter starts at 0x4322. And the buffer is at 0x4323. These values are: 97 03

Calculation steps:
1) 97 03
2) 03 97 (reverse bytes, LSB first)
3) Convert to DEC = 919
4) 52200 (919*50) = 6250

https://www.screencast.com/t/I8gmDgJLLTUd

Is someone able to confirm or verify this 2 byte theory?

The 1 byte theory with 1 byte limiter and 1 byte buffer seems to work when changing the value. I persume this is because you are changing the MSB (most significant bit, or left-most bit) of the 2 bytes in my example.
The reason i investigated this is because i changed the value second value (rev limit buffer in other XDF's) from 97 03 to 97 04. This has noticeable impact on engine running, because this calculated to a negative value.
Some comment in an XDF says the rev limiter buffer byte (0x03 , decimal) is a treshold value for shutting of half or al injectors about 120 RPM above the limit.
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