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BMW M50 413 tuning with ITB

 
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Youngtimer



Joined: 20 Aug 2017
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:32 pm    Post subject: BMW M50 413 tuning with ITB Reply with quote

Hi all,

My car is a BMW E36 m50b25 with a 2.8 engine running with 413 red label chip 623 ecu dme. Single vanos, ITB's from euro M3 , headers and full race exhaust. Build for racing purpose.
Now i want to tune it to good AFR 12.5-14.7 using innovate LC1.
I am using Tunerpro and the XDF from the download section with my own bin.
Or is there a better/update XDF version?
I have a programmer so i did read the original bin and can programm a new one.
Can i just change the ignition and fuel tables provided in the XDF and the programm it into a new 27c512 eprom? How about the checksum, is this corrected by tunerpro XDF?
Thanks in advance
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Evil



Joined: 18 Jul 2017
Posts: 56
Location: France

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
I think that the 413 red label XDF will allow you To tune everything you need. Checksum will be updated automatically when you save your changes.
Tuning will be easier by using an Ostrich 2.0, and then you can burn your .bin in a chip when tuning is ok.
If you run no MAF tuning can be a little harder at low loads with ITB necause the alpha/n table has a lack of definition at low throttle opening but for race use only it would not be a big problem.
Good luck
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Youngtimer



Joined: 20 Aug 2017
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Evil,

I am running with MAF, so will be good.

Will the dme need a speed signal?
I don't have one , because it is a race car with custom dash and cauges.
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Evil



Joined: 18 Jul 2017
Posts: 56
Location: France

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure but I think you'll effectively need a speed signal with 413 dme.
I think that the speed signal for dme comes from the original dashboard, I dont know if the signal from the speed sensor is modified by the dashboard and then ditribued To dme, or if it's raw signal.
Some guys used To split the CPS signal (cam position sensor) instead of speed signal, and it seems To work perfectly.
The best solution would be To disable that in the tune, there must be a table with the 5500rpm limiter with no speed signal, maybe someone has already find it.
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Youngtimer



Joined: 20 Aug 2017
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks.

I would like to find that speedsignal solution in the dme software.
I cannot find it in the XDF.
Can someone help me to find that 5500rpm limiter becauso of missing speedsignal
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Hairyscreech



Joined: 20 Jun 2017
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will need a speed signal, upside is that it is only an unmodified signal from the diff.
Wire up your VSS in the diff to the ECU and you should be golden.
The need for a signal is hard coded into the ECU, until there is a publicly available disassembly of the code or I can learn enough to do it and post it then not much we can do to change the main code.

Don't even try to tune these without an ostrich, if you cannot see what data the ECU is accessing then you have little hope of getting a proper tune together.
They are only a couple of hundred bucks.


Last edited by Hairyscreech on Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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aboutton



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 168
Location: Lebanon

PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the speed signal is essential for the DME413 to work correctly but there is no limiter at 5500 rpm. you have another problem causing the cut at 5500 100% sure
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Tony Ouneissy
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Hairyscreech



Joined: 20 Jun 2017
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aboutton wrote:
the speed signal is essential for the DME413 to work correctly but there is no limiter at 5500 rpm. you have another problem causing the cut at 5500 100% sure


tell me about it, i have been having trouble with my diff plug making the speedo cutout and a total mess of any tuning run I was on at the time.
Sorted now and surprise surprise the tuning issues I was having are gone too.

The M3.3 on the Euro M3 will barely move without the VSS working.
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aboutton



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 168
Location: Lebanon

PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah sure you will not get any power of that ecu without speed sensor connected but it will not cut on 5500.
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Youngtimer



Joined: 20 Aug 2017
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all for the great help.
I did make the speed signal from the diff into the dme.
It was not a hard limiter at 5500 but down on power because of running very rich due the missing vss.
After that some tuning fuel and ignition maps with maf. Works great.
Did some dyno test last weekend and result 183.7whp. Happy with that.

Can someone inform me were i can find the alpha N fuel map in the XDF 413 redlabel file?
I want to tune it now without maf and a good airbox.
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aboutton



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 168
Location: Lebanon

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what software number you are using ?
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Youngtimer



Joined: 20 Aug 2017
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am using redlabel 413 623 chip.
Is that what u need?
I can e-mail you the software file i am using if u want?
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aboutton



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 168
Location: Lebanon

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The limp mode map is located at 0xDBC3 6x7 (alfa_n MAP)
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Tony Ouneissy
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Youngtimer



Joined: 20 Aug 2017
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Tony,

I cannot find it in de xdf redlabel file wich i use.
How can i find that map in tunerpro?
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aboutton



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 168
Location: Lebanon

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

where did you get the xdf from ?
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Youngtimer



Joined: 20 Aug 2017
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use the xdf from tunepro download section.

http://www.tunerpro.net/download/bindefs/BMW/BMW_413_red%20label_chip623.xdf
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aboutton



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 168
Location: Lebanon

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you dont have Limp mode map ?
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Tony Ouneissy
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Youngtimer



Joined: 20 Aug 2017
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't find it in that XDF.
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Evil



Joined: 18 Jul 2017
Posts: 56
Location: France

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should have this map, she is at the end of tables list in the xdf, "maf related limp mode map".
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Youngtimer



Joined: 20 Aug 2017
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great, found it!
Thanks
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